Truthful Tuesday — Body Autonomy

Melanie, of Sparks from a Combustible Mind, still filling in for Frank, aka PCGuy, who is taking a temporary hiatus from his Truthful Tuesday prompt. This week Melanie wants to know…

Should an individual have autonomy over their own bodies and the decisions made about their own body?

Oh boy, here we go. The short answer is yes. I am not a fan of body piercing or tattoos, and I would never subject my body to either. But if someone else might choose to get a body full of tattoos and piercings, I might question their choices, but not their right to do so. If a man wants to get a vasectomy, does anyone try to stand in his way? If a woman chooses to have a hysterectomy, does anyone stand in her way? Similarly, a woman should have the right to manage her own reproductive health care, including pregnancy and abortion. It’s no one else’s business. As I frequently say, whatever floats your boat. For those people who believe abortion is wrong, the answer is simple. Don’t have an abortion. That’s their choice. Why do they feel compelled to impose their choices on others?


Ought the government be allowed to get involved in such personal decisions?

Isn’t it interesting that Republicans used to be the party that preached that the government should stay out of their bedrooms and out of their personal, private lives? Oh how things have changed. Now they are passing laws banning abortions and even making having an abortion a crime. They want to ban contraceptives and to condemn same sex relationships and let businesses refuse to serve members of the LGBT community. How much more personal and private can you get?

Republicans consider mandates requiring the wearing a face mask during a pandemic that has taken the lives of more that a million Americans to be an infringement of their personal freedoms and liberties. But making abortions illegal is fine and dandy. Talk about hypocritical.

The government should be allowed to pass laws designed to ensure safety when it comes the health and welfare of its citizens, but that is it. Today, with abortions being legal, the procedure, like any other medical procedure, must be performed by a licensed health care provider. If abortions in the United States are declared illegal (or criminal), abortions will still be performed, but in so-called “back alleys” by unlicensed, unregulated providers. Is that really where we, as a nation, want to go?

Some Republican states are even considering laws making it illegal for women to travel out of state (to a state where abortions are still legally provided) without a certification that they are not pregnant. And you thought my post about the U.S. becoming a real-life Handmaid’s Tale was over the top.

80 thoughts on “Truthful Tuesday — Body Autonomy

  1. Gypsie-Ami Offenbacher-Ferris May 10, 2022 / 10:13 am

    Very well stated!! Thank you!

    “For those people who believe abortion is wrong, the answer is simple. Don’t have an abortion. That’s their choice. Why do they feel compelled to impose their choices on others?”

    YES, YES and YES!!!!

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Paula Light May 10, 2022 / 11:01 am

    Agree 100% of course, as any rational person should 😀

    Liked by 3 people

  3. Mister Bump UK May 10, 2022 / 11:24 am

    Sorry, did you just argue that somebody should have the right to decide what is injected into their body?

    Okay, I’m being mischievous. My point is just that it’s a complex issue.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Fandango May 10, 2022 / 2:28 pm

      Yes it is complex, but in the context of abortion and women’s rights, it’s not complex at all. And hey, if someone wants to inject horse tranquilizer into his body to treat COVID, go right ahead. Maybe it will put that person out of his misery. Forever.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Mister Bump UK May 10, 2022 / 2:34 pm

        Somebody who is pro-life would just argue that there are two people involved, not just a mother. It’s an unwinnable argument.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Fandango May 10, 2022 / 3:41 pm

          Except that a fetus is not a person who can survive outside of the womb. I know some believe that a “person” exists from the moment of conception, but most believe that personhood really starts when a newborn takes its first breath after delivery

          Liked by 3 people

          • Mister Bump UK May 10, 2022 / 11:15 pm

            That’s the thing though. It’s that “belief” that cements people, either way. That’s why I say it’s an unwinnable argument – because that core belief/disbelief makes people intransigent.
            I doubt anybody ever changed their mind in a debate about abortion. Because it stems from that binary position.

            Liked by 1 person

            • Fandango May 11, 2022 / 12:05 am

              But just because some people (a minority of people in the U.S.) embrace the idea that a fetus is a person and that having an abortion is murder, doesn’t mean that having an abortion should be illegal and a criminal offense. As I said in my post. If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t get an abortion. But what right do you have trying to impose your beliefs — through legislation and the courts — on those who don’t share them? I don’t believe that God exists. Should my believe that God doesn’t exist be criminalized because you believe that God does exist and you want everyone to abide by your beliefs?

              Liked by 2 people

            • Mister Bump UK May 11, 2022 / 12:43 am

              It’s that whole “want everybody to abide by your beliefs” thing.
              That’s what people do. When politicians make some law which says “x is illegal”, that’s exactly what they’re doing.
              So it doesn’t surprise me one bit that people think that way about abortions, too.

              Liked by 1 person

      • Marleen May 10, 2022 / 5:16 pm

        Just a thought: reiteration of talking points put out by big pharma/big business doesn’t advance your best interests. Nor women’s.

        Liked by 1 person

  4. Marleen May 10, 2022 / 6:19 pm

    I found this conversation, just now (hadn’t seen it before), as I’m awaiting for the availability of a conversation that happened this evening on the same show.

    The first guest, here, wrote an excellent book

    … called THE MEANS OF REPRODUCTION

    https://www.msnbc.com/the-mehdi-hasan-show/watch/the-debate-over-protests-outside-judges-houses-139736133763

    The Debate over Protests outside Judges’ Houses

    Outrage continues over abortion rights protests outside Supreme Court justices’ houses, because those homes are private. But is this the best move by the left? MSNBC political analysts Michelle Goldberg and Brittany Packnett Cunningham join Mehdi to discuss. May 10, 2022

    Liked by 1 person

  5. leigha66 May 10, 2022 / 6:58 pm

    Only under extreme conditions do I think I could actually have an abortion, but that is MY choice. There are about a million different reasons why women might choice to have one, but that is THEIR choice. I saw a post on FB that said as soon as boys go through a change they should have a vasectomy until they complete a parental class and are deemed fit to raise a child then the procedure can be reversed… why not impose that? I am so scared this nation is moving backwards quickly instead of making progress.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Marleen May 10, 2022 / 8:42 pm

      Wow! The vascectomy idea is intense; does put the idea of forced childbirth into some perspective.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Fandango May 10, 2022 / 8:46 pm

      “I am so scared this nation is moving backwards quickly instead of making progress.” We should all be scared, because that is what is happening.

      Liked by 2 people

      • mosckerr June 25, 2022 / 10:18 pm

        Roe vs. Wade.
        States Rights Washington Bites. Now get Washington out of healthcare and education. Where was Obamacare during Covid? Washington leave the 2nd Amendment alone. Close the CIA, the NSA, and the FBI while your at it, don’t forget the Secret Service and IRS, together with the Federal Reserve. Annul the 17th Amendment.

        Like

        • Marleen June 25, 2022 / 10:43 pm

          Keep Washington out of the second amendment is a bit like keep government hands off my Medicare.

          Liked by 2 people

  6. Marleen May 10, 2022 / 8:47 pm

    From the opening post: Some Republican states are even considering laws making it illegal for women to travel out of state (to a state where abortions are still legally provided) without a certification that they are not pregnant.

    I am extremely pro freedom of movement. I’m against privatizing roads and bridges (such that you’d have to pay tolls to trolls before you could pass). So, you can guess what I think of this. And this has the added feature of discrimination based on sex and gender. And good ol’ infringement of privacy.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Fandango May 10, 2022 / 10:11 pm

      I would like to think that if any state tried to impose such restrictions on women’s travel, it would be immediately struck down by the Supreme Court. But with a 6-3 conservative majority, who knows?

      Liked by 1 person

  7. Marleen May 11, 2022 / 2:05 am

    https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/lawrence-america-is-living-under-the-obliviousness-of-the-supreme-court-139660357541

    Lawrence: America is living under the obliviousness of the Supreme Court

    Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas says Americans are “becoming addicted to wanting particular outcomes, not living with the outcomes we don’t like.” MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell breaks down fmr. Defense Secy. Mark Esper’s “banana republic” comments and explains how they show the United States is a “Trump republic.” May 9, 2022

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Melanie B Cee May 11, 2022 / 10:23 am

    Bravo Fandango! A pleasure to read your thoughts on what is a very prickly subject indeed!

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Carol anne May 11, 2022 / 1:38 pm

    absolutely Fandango! I agree, peoples bodies are theirs, no one else’s and definitely it is their choice to do as they will with their bodies!

    Liked by 1 person

    • Marleen May 26, 2022 / 3:10 pm

      “I’m generally miserable” 1960

      Liked by 1 person

  10. ragnarsbhut May 29, 2022 / 10:19 am

    I find it to be rather absurd that the right to bodily autonomy under the guise of “my body my choice” is applicable to abortion but not refusal of vaccines or any other medical matters. Either apply the argument across-the-board or just shut up about it.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Fandango May 29, 2022 / 1:40 pm

      Abortion is a private and personal decision and the decision to get an abortion affects only the decision-maker. Getting vaccinated or wearing a face mask is a PUBLIC health matter and the decision to NOT get vaccinated can affect a lot of others by exposing the disease to others. It’s apples and oranges.

      Like

      • ragnarsbhut May 29, 2022 / 4:42 pm

        Fandango, tell a habitual recluse that he or she is responsible for a pandemic being perpetuated by not getting vaccinated and not interacting with the public and see what happens.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Fandango May 29, 2022 / 5:13 pm

          Tell me why a habitual recluse would have any skin in the game when it comes to abortion. And if that same habitual recluse NEVER goes to a public setting and NEVER interacts with others, then fine, he or she can skip getting vaccinated. But anything short of NEVER changes the equation.

          Like

          • ragnarsbhut May 29, 2022 / 5:16 pm

            Fandango, if the tax dollars of that person are paying for someone to get an abortion, that habitual recluse should have every right to say no.

            Like

            • Fandango May 29, 2022 / 5:35 pm

              Are this habitual recluse’s tax dollars paying for someone to get an abortion? The Hyde Amendment, passed by Congress in 1976, bans the use of federal funds to pay for abortions, with exceptions for when the life of the pregnant person is in danger or when the pregnancy results from sexual assault or incest. Do you think each of us gets to choose how our tax dollars are spent? If so, I should be able to say no to having so many of my tax dollars going to the Defense Department. As an atheist, I should be able to say no to churches being tax exempt. How about my tax dollars that Trump spent on his ludicrous border wall? Or the tax dollars being spent on anything else I don’t like. But that’s not the way it works. So until we can each specifically earmark how our individual dollars are spent, that habitual recluse should just mind his own business.

              Like

            • ragnarsbhut May 29, 2022 / 5:47 pm

              Fandango, as should people who seem to fixate about the vaccination status of the rest of us.

              Liked by 1 person

            • Fandango May 29, 2022 / 6:04 pm

              I care about the vaccination of “the rest of us” only because those who choose not to get vaccinated are putting “the rest of us” at greater risk.

              Like

            • ragnarsbhut May 29, 2022 / 6:06 pm

              Fandango, if the vaccinated are protected, why be so concerned about the nonvaccinated?

              Like

            • Fandango May 29, 2022 / 6:17 pm

              Due to variants, I know lots of fully vaccinated people who have still contracted COVID, albeit much milder cases than those who remain unvaccinated. So the more people who get vaccinated, the less the continuing spread of the disease.

              Like

            • ragnarsbhut May 29, 2022 / 6:21 pm

              Fandango, What vaccine were you the least skeptical of initially?

              Liked by 1 person

            • Fandango May 29, 2022 / 6:57 pm

              Even a flu vaccine, doesn’t prevent you from getting the flu, but it does reduce the likelihood and it does reduce the severity if you get it. The same with the COVID vaccine.

              Like

            • ragnarsbhut May 29, 2022 / 7:00 pm

              Fandango, I understand that. Related to my original question, I would like to get your thoughts.

              Liked by 1 person

            • Fandango May 29, 2022 / 8:40 pm

              And if, by your original question, you mean was I the least bit skeptical of the original COVID vaccine, I was, as in most things, persuaded, AFTER considering all of the information available at the time and evaluating the options and alternatives, happy to get vaccinated. And I remain happy to have been twice boosted.

              Like

            • ragnarsbhut May 29, 2022 / 8:45 pm

              I understand, but I was referriing to Pfizer, Moderna, Astrazeneca and the Johnson&Johnson.

              Like

            • Fandango May 29, 2022 / 10:23 pm

              I got Moderna for all four jabs. My wife got Pfizer for three of the four, Moderna for the second booster.

              Like

            • ragnarsbhut May 30, 2022 / 6:10 am

              Fandango, due to my having Epilepsy, I am not certain as to what the safest one might be.

              Liked by 1 person

            • ragnarsbhut May 30, 2022 / 8:10 am

              Fandango, my situation being what it is, something I just accept, I am not really inclined to play the medical equivalent of Russian Roulette with my health. Just my thoughts.

              Like

            • Fandango May 30, 2022 / 1:25 pm

              Well, if, due to your health situation, you choose not to get vaccinated, that’s understandable. But when you go out in public, do you also choose not to wear a face mask? If so, that’s not understandable.

              Like

            • ragnarsbhut May 30, 2022 / 1:30 pm

              Fandango, I just keep my distance from people and don’t go anywhere. Not once have I gotten sick.

              Liked by 1 person

            • Marleen May 30, 2022 / 7:03 am

              Don’t forget to include Novavax in the options. And, whichever you might choose, talk to your provider about aspiration (the proper way to dispense an injection to someone who isn’t an infant).

              Liked by 1 person

            • ragnarsbhut May 30, 2022 / 8:11 am

              Marleen, I have some knowledge of Novavax.

              Like

            • Marleen May 30, 2022 / 1:47 pm

              Oh, okay, Ragnar. I thought you were curious about the available vaccines of various types (not only various brands and dosages). [Your variety of hot sauces looks enticing, by the way.] Here is some information on the particular kind of aspiration to which I was referring. It’s difficult to decide what to quote first, but here we go:

              https://www.proquest.com/docview/1953109361

              { We can see that a significant number of drugs say not to inject intravenously, while they might not use the specific word — aspirate — but that is needed to be sure. }

              Findings from product inserts

              Product inserts for injectable drugs on the Essential Drug List were obtained from over 20 pharmacies across the city of Karachi, Pakistan 93.

              Each insert was checked and the level of evidence available was categorized as follows: 1. Clearly mentioned on the leaflet to aspirate before injection 2. No mention of aspiration on the leaflet, but advocates a particular route of administration because of the dangers of side effects 3. Suggests to stick to a particular route regardless of outcome of aspiration before injection

              Only 3 drugs out of a total of 108 studied had level 1 evidence (bupivacaine, lidocaine and Pneumococcal 7-valent conjugate vaccine). Level-3 evidence was available for only 1 drug (Dactinomycin). The remaining essential drugs gave level-2 evidence

              Table ………..

              Like

            • ragnarsbhut May 30, 2022 / 1:51 pm

              Marleen, thank you for that insightful information. Please feel free to read, follow my blog and leave me some feedback. I also do invite you to share my stuff with family and friends.

              Like

    • Fandango July 20, 2022 / 10:28 pm

      A fetus is a grouping of cells that is growing and evolving and has the potential to be a person at birth. But until that fetus is viable (i.e., capable of surviving outside of the mother’s womb), it is not yet a person. That is my opinion. Your opinion might differ, but what gives you…or anyone else…the right to say that it is illegal to share my opinion when it comes to personal and private matters pertaining to pregnancy?

      Liked by 1 person

      • The Chivalric Catholic July 21, 2022 / 6:31 am

        Thanks for responding, Fandango!
        What gives me the right to say an opinion should be illegal… Well, first of all, I’m going to point out that freedom of opinion is a personal matter, but freedom to act on some opinions is not. As an example, there are some very real people in the world who think African-Americans are in some way subhuman, but it should still be illegal for them to independently lynch them for whatever reason.
        So, all that is to say, there are various opinions as to what constitutes a human, but that should hardly lead to people settling on the “common denominator” and only treating the people about whom there is the least dispute as human.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Fandango July 21, 2022 / 9:36 am

          Your example of equating the lynching of African Americans to aborting fetuses is ludicrous. The African American in your analogy is a living, breathing, thinking person. A fetus is not. Not yet, anyway. The belief that full human personhood begins at conception and that the rights of an embryo/fetus trump those of a woman is a conservative Christian teaching. And conservative Christians are pushing to codify their belief of personhood into the law of the land, thus amaking it a crime for a woman to have an abortion. I am not a conservative Christian. I do not share your believe that a fetus is a person. Yet you seem to be okay criminalizing my belief. All I am saying is that you are free to believe whatever you want to believe, but you are not free to take away the freedom of a person to manage her own reproductive healthcare decisions because they clash with your personal belief or opinion. America is not a Christian theocracy. At least not yet.

          Liked by 1 person

          • The Chivalric Catholic July 21, 2022 / 10:04 am

            America is not a Christian theocracy—so why are you bringing up religion?
            Also, who said they “trump” those of a woman. Under many circumstances, the right to life is considered to supersede the right to bodily autonomy.
            Also, whence do you get “a living, breathing, thinking person”? I think it could be seen as rather arbitrary, since people who have a condition requiring them to breath in their mouth or people who are unable to breathe for some reason but have not died yet, or people who are intellectually disabled in some way or are newborns, are all persons in my mind. Also, fetuses sort of breathe, though not through their nostrils. And obviously fetuses are alive, as any scientists would admit—after all, abortion is killing a fetus.

            Like

            • Fandango July 21, 2022 / 4:39 pm

              Well, let’s just agree to disagree, since there are no arguments I can make to sway you nor than you can make to sway me.

              Liked by 1 person

            • The Chivalric Catholic July 22, 2022 / 5:58 am

              Very well—although, given that reason is the same for everyone, I would think it should be possible to sway at least whichever one of us who is wrong.

              Like

            • Fandango July 22, 2022 / 6:48 am

              I’m not sure how that is possible, as neither of us believes that we are wrong. We are each entitled to our own beliefs and opinions, but you apparently feel compelled to want mine to be illegal and to make those who have abortions into criminals. My belief is that a woman should be the decision maker when it comes to her own reproductive health and has the right to have an abortion. She is a person, a fetus is not yet a person.

              I read that a woman was pulled over for driving her car alone in a two or more person HOV lane on a highway. She fought the ticket, claiming that, because she was pregnant, her car was occupied by two “persons.” Based upon your beliefs, was she correct and should she have not been stopped or ticketed? I’m just curious how far you take this personhood at conception thing.

              Like

            • The Chivalric Catholic July 22, 2022 / 7:28 am

              Fair points—only I would say that whether a fetus is objectively a person is a very important question here and according to the law should not be treated as a subjective opinion.

              I personally think it is reasonable—provided there is not an age-limit or anything.

              Like

  11. Marleen July 21, 2022 / 11:23 am

    Ten year old rape victim’s doctor sues … DEFAMATION …

    Liked by 1 person

    • Marleen July 23, 2022 / 2:50 pm

      Complaint: Indiana AG Intended to ‘Harass and Intimidate’ …

      Liked by 1 person

  12. Marleen July 21, 2022 / 11:42 am

    NEO NAZI MONSTER WINS GOP NOMINATION FOR MARYLAND AG

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Marleen July 21, 2022 / 3:03 pm

    Proud Boys to Take [July 11] Center Stage …

    Liked by 1 person

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