Welcome once again to Fandango’s Provocative Question. Each week I will pose what I think is a provocative question for your consideration.
By provocative, I don’t mean a question that will cause annoyance or anger. Nor do I mean a question intended to arouse sexual desire or interest.
What I do mean is a question that is likely to get you to think, to be creative, and to provoke a response. Hopefully a positive response.
This week’s provocative question is about COVID-19 vaccinations. I know that four months ago, in this Provocative Question post, I asked if you’d gotten vaccinated for COVID-19 yet. My question this week is similar, but different.
I know that many of us were hoping that COVID-19 would be behind us by now, given the widespread availability of free vaccinations to protect us from this potentially deadly disease that brought the United States, and most other countries around the globe, to its knees in 2020. But it’s not behind us.
COVID-19 cases are back on the rise in the U.S., with a disproportionate number new cases among unvaccinated people in Southern and Appalachian states, including Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Mississippi, Missouri, Florida, and West Virginia, where vaccination rates are low.
Further, the rise of the delta variant of the virus is rapidly speeding transmission among those who haven’t been fully vaccinated, and that variant accounts for more than half of all new COVID-19 cases in the U.S.
So my provocative question is simply this…
Are you fully vaccinated against COVID-19 yet? And if not, why the fuck not?
If you choose to participate, write a post with your response to the question. Once you are done, tag your post with #FPQ and create a pingback to this post if you are on WordPress. Or you can simply include a link to your post in the comments. But remember to check to confirm that your pingback or your link shows up in the comments.
This, That, and the Other 
I am and all the people who are Eligible in my family are as well. Just this kids aren’t.
LikeLiked by 1 person
LikeLiked by 1 person
You sound indignant when you say “why the fuck not?”, but I have to say, if I were 20 years old it would be a very tough call. On the one hand I am facing a disease from which I will recover, on the other hand I am being asked to inject myself with god knows what.
While it might be clear at our age which way to jump, it ain’t necessarily so if you’re young. Nobody has any idea what these vaccines might do in 5 or 10 or 20 years time, and I think you will see the risk differently if you’re young.
LikeLiked by 4 people
Not to mention, white people have a long track record of fucking over brown people, so when a white guy says “get vaccinated”, what’s a brown guy to think?
LikeLiked by 1 person
That argument doesn’t hold water if the white guy has already been vaccinated.
LikeLiked by 1 person
but how do we know? It’s ony really by personal admission that we know any of this.
LikeLiked by 1 person
In the U.S., those who are administering the shots must already have been vaccinated.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I HOPE that was tongue in cheek, Pete. If someone throws the race card onto the pile, God only knows what will happen.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Deadly serious. Government here have got to the point where they are not trusted because of issues such as immigration, deportation etc. where they have behaved less than honourably in the past.,
Brown people have learned not to trust whatever is said. So when a minister comes on tv saying “get yourself vaccinated”, how much effect do you think it has. Even a guy in a white coat is paid out of the public purse so is no more than a shill.
That’s UK. Rates among minorities are lower than for whites and I’d guess that’s why.
As for the US, you tend to be more acute than us where race is involved, not less. Do they publish numbers of vaccinations split by race there? We’d expect it to be totally flat, but I bet it isn’t.
LikeLiked by 2 people
At some point, your own intelligence has to come into play. You KNOW this disease is deadly — even more deadly to dark people, old people, Natives, and of course those of us with other medical conditions. You know this. At some point, you have to take a chance of LIFE. Because other choices lead to death and that’s not what you want. I understand the long, ugly history of what Europeans have done to black and brown people and Natives. They’ve murdered a few million of my people too. Be that as it may, I have a brain and if you want to find out facts, they are there. You do NOT have to accept when every Republican or Russian asshole says as true or even as possible.
I haven’t seen numbers of vaccinations by race, but I HAVE seen the number of deaths from COVID by race. There have been very few deaths from the vaccines and they have been mostly white women of child-bearing age. On the other hand, COVID has been terrible for Natives and almost as bad for dark-skinned people — of which I should add my husband is one. Personally, I’d go for survival. He was the first person in the house to get vaccinated, by the way because he was old enough for the first round of shots.
Sometimes, survival is the only thing that matters. The rest is bullshit.
LikeLiked by 1 person
That’s seriously messed up. I haven’t heard (not that I’m paying the strictest attention mind you, not being brown or any shade variation thereof). I have an opinion about it, but I’m going to shut up about that. Because it isn’t very nice actually. Respect for ALL people of any color ought to be the chant, not *insert color* lives matter MORE than *insert another color* lives matter because they’ve suffered ‘more’. Oh shit. Shutting up now.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I think it shows that how you act has consequences. (Some) politicians in particular have said or supported quite nasty things and I think we are seeing now that their overall credibility has been harmed.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’m willing to bet this is happening under Trump’s “right to try” policy; additionally, under a halt/pause in characterizing the proceedings as an experiment (because more people would know there are/would be certain protocols to expect therin and because ther can be rationalization).
I just a few minutes ago heard it reported — on ABC — that testing/studying has demonstrated that vaccinated and unvaccinated people shed about the same amount of virus, when infected, which can involve symptoms or not. And this is associated with the current recommendation to wear masks again.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Do you get an annual flu shot? Were you vaccinated for measles? How about polio or any other vaccines. My concern is that the whole vaccine hesitancy thing…at any age…has been fostered by vocal anti-vaxxers and for political purposes rather than based upon science and healthcare. And with the surge in new cases, not getting vaccinated is putting others at risk.
LikeLiked by 1 person
So they have a choice: put themselves at risk or put others at risk…. I don’t fancy your chances 🤣.
The difference between other vaccines and COVID is the short time taken to gain approval. Long-term effects simply aren’t known yet. That seems a reasonable argument – those of us who took the vaccine made that leap of faith, I’m not sure I would if I were 20. It would depend on other factors, too, but recoverability is definitely one of them.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Where are the huge numbers of deaths by vaccine? Where? When? EVERYONE I know — white, brown, AND Native — have ALL been vaccinated. NO one got seriously sick and no one died or even HEARD of anyone dying. Talk about a hoax. What you are talking about IS a hoax.
LikeLiked by 2 people
You’re talking about a vaccine that is six months old.
LikeLiked by 2 people
“Missed Information” Ep.01: Robert W. Malone, M.D., M.S
Nicole Murphy
188 subscribers
Published on Jun 30, 2021
Here is the full interview I did with Dr. Robert Malone. There is minimal editing.
Dr. Robert Malone is an expert in vaccines, clinical trials and is connected to scientists all over the world. He has spent his life involved in the discovery, creation and development of vaccines, so he is not an “anti-vaxxer.”
He was the first to discover mRNA vaccine technology in the late 80s.
He has had COVID, and is a long hauler patient, so he has empathy for those who have suffered with the virus.
He and his wife have both taken the Moderna vaccine.
…
LikeLiked by 1 person
… he also has some concerns around data emerging about how clinical trials were conducted and the safety of the vaccines.
Some questions discussed in this interview include:
What is Dr. Malone’s background and experience?
Are there any warning signs the COVID vaccines could be causing unforeseen adverse side effects?
What are the bioethics around experimental products?
What are some of the studies coming to the forefront causing some concern with the vaccines?
Is there validity in being concerned about taking the vaccine?
Is there censorship taking place of doctors and scientists?
Disclaimer: This interview is not intended to give you clear cut answer to these questions. You get to watch the interview and decide for yourself what is important and what you want to focus on.
If you do want to discuss the video here are some rules of engagement:
*Please speak directly to the content and refrain from personal attacks of myself or Dr. Malone.
If you think either one of us is being unreasonable … feel free to just not believe us. That is your choice.
*If you wish to comment I ask you take the time to watch the interview. This ensures that you have the full picture of what Dr. Malone is saying.
*If you feel the need to post “FACT CHECKER” articles please just check that it has an author attached to the article, as well as the name of the scientist they have interviewed. BONUS POINTS if the scientist is more qualified on the subject of clinical trials and vaccines than Dr.Robert Malone.
Some links discussed in the video:
{I, Marleen, have removed all but one of the links from my copy for this comment so it won’t, procedurally, get hung up in Fandango’s trash. I think I’ll include them all in another comment, next.}
Visit Robert W. Malone, M.D., M.S website:
https://www.rwmalonemd.com/
Open Vaers website:
http://www...
Pfizer Clinical Protocol:
cdn…pdf
Women & Nurses Study:
https…
Japanese Pfizer Data Package
https…
Dr. Byram Bridle Guide for Parents
https…
Trusted News Initiative
https…
LikeLike
… he also has some concerns around data emerging about how clinical trials were conducted and the safety of the vaccines.
Some questions discussed in this interview include:
What is Dr. Malone’s background and experience?
Are there any warning signs the COVID vaccines could be causing unforeseen adverse side effects?
What are the bioethics around experimental products?
What are some of the studies coming to the forefront causing some concern with the vaccines?
Is there validity in being concerned about taking the vaccine?
Is there censorship taking place of doctors and scientists?
Disclaimer: This interview is not intended to give you clear cut answer to these questions. You get to watch the interview and decide for yourself what is important and what you want to focus on.
If you do want to discuss the video here are some rules of engagement:
*Please speak directly to the content and refrain from personal attacks of myself or Dr. Malone.
If you think either one of us is being unreasonable … feel free to just not believe us. That is your choice.
*If you wish to comment I ask you take the time to watch the interview. This ensures that you have the full picture of what Dr. Malone is saying.
*If you feel the need to post “FACT CHECKER” articles please just check that it has an author attached to the article, as well as the name of the scientist they have interviewed. BONUS POINTS if the scientist is more qualified on the subject of clinical trials and vaccines than Dr.Robert Malone.
Some links discussed in the video:
{I, Marleen, have removed all but one of the links from my copy for this comment so it won’t, procedurally, get hung up in Fandango’s trash. I think I’ll include them all in another comment, next.}
Visit Robert W. Malone, M.D., M.S website:
https://www.rwmalonemd.com/
Open Vaers website:
…
Pfizer Clinical Protocol: …
Women & Nurses Study:
…
Japanese Pfizer Data Package
…
Dr. Byram Bridle Guide for Parents
…
Trusted News Initiative
…
LikeLike
About the first one, here (having left out the actual first one on the list because I already gave it, above), I looked all over the papers handed to me when I got my two doses (of Pfizer); no information was made available for how to report side effects or adverse reactions.
Open Vaers website:
http://www.openvaers.com
Pfizer Clinical Protocol:
cdn.pfizer.com/pfizercom/2020-11/C4591001_Clinical_Protocol_Nov2020.pdf
Women & Nurses Study:
https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab465/6279075
Japanese Pfizer Data Package:
Click to access Pfizer-report_Japanese-government.pdf
Dr. Byram Bridle Guide for Parents:
Click to access 2021-06-15-Children-and-COVID-19-Vaccines-full-guide_-FINAL.pdf
Trusted News Initiative:
https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/2020/trusted-news-initiative-vaccine-disinformation
LikeLiked by 1 person
Marleen, if you put more than two links in a single comment, it goes right I to my spam folder.
LikeLike
Yes, I do know.
That’s why I said I was going to only include one in that particular comment. (And that then I would be putting more in the next comment — and let that next one wait to go through as necessary.) I had wanted to include, only, the first characters (as well as the last three for the link that goes to a pdf) for a bit of orientation.
What I didn’t know was that it wasn’t enough to chop off most of the link and leave the first set of letters (and the last three characters in one case). Therefore, I’ve ended up with two nearly identical comments (the former being a learning experience but a matter not of learning what you just now said — because I knew that part before).
Anyway, it’s all worked out okay. Thank you. Sorry for the confusion.
LikeLiked by 1 person
My 26 year old daughter is hesitant. She’s not anti-vaxx at all and in fact, blames me partially for her hesitation.
When the chicken pox vaccine came out I waited. My older daughter had gotten chicken pox, and I wanted younger to get it rather than the shot because it was so new. My German measles shot wore off I found out while I was pregnant with younger, which made me question long term effects of vaccines a little.
Enough back story. I encourage younger to get the COVID shots, but understand her questioning long term effects. I still think it’s preferable to hospitalization and/or death.
My older daughter, myself and my almost 13 year old autistic grandson have had both shots.
I don’t get a flu shot, and neither does Ben. Older daughter has to because she’s a nurse.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Yes I think if I were that age I would probably regard the wait and see approach, in the belief that the risk of hospitalisation and death is negligible. FGur our age group of course the tables are probably turned, risk is that much greater.
Interesting that at the very end you say “has to”. Does that mean that her employer compels her to do so? Here, they have not power to do that, neither would they have the power with a covid shot. If a co dismisses somebody for refusal, it is the co who would be likely to be sued, for discriminating.
LikeLiked by 3 people
She works in a hospital, directly with patients, so as a term of employment she either has to get flu shots or wear a mask at all times. She may choose the mask in the future since she’s used to it more now.
There was a case here in US where employees at a hospital refused COVID shots and didn’t have a doctor note, or religious reason etc, and a court ruled that the hospital could terminate their employment.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Gosh, you have me wondering now if they can do that here. I doubt it. The law of the land must take precedence over any contract.
LikeLiked by 1 person
The J&J (and other names of the same sort — adenovirus vaccines if I remember correctly — or Sputnik (theoretically) options are most similar to the kinds of vaccines we’ve gotten before. I am fully aware I’ve been part of an experiment (didn’t get that kind but the mRNA instead).
LikeLiked by 2 people
Even at a high level, there are examples of vaccines such as thalidomide backfiring, even in a non-rushed environment. These things are not supposition, they actually happened. So I think it is prudent to be skiptical. Of course, many of us who took the vaccine knew and accepted this risk.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Yes! Risk assessment is important for every vaccine, whether well established or new. Even older vaccines that are no brainers for most people can pose threats to some people with unique risk factors. Or things can go mysteriously awry with no good explanation – even if rare, it’s always possible. Proper informed consent is about knowing and accepting those risks.
LikeLiked by 3 people
I would add that people need to be responsible in that, for instance, polio can be passed from a newly vaccinated person to someone with lowered immunity. When I got my babies vaccinated for polio (with the live virus version which at least was most common and might still be), I didn’t take them (for maybe a week) to places where someone else might be endangered by them.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Excellent point!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Gotta say thalidomide (which originated in Germany and was some kind of mood-altering thing if I remember correctly) wasn’t approved in the United States, although some American women got ahold of it anyway (plus, a couple of human studies were done here which isn’t the same as putting it on the market). It’s now used for leprosy (and apparently sometimes for some type of cancer) and never for pregnant women. You’re so right, it wasn’t tested enough before some countries used it. (And my saying that the US didn’t approve it is not meant to indicate I have, because I don’t have, the false belief that !USA! is above making mistakes.)
LikeLiked by 1 person
Yes, we took the risk for ourselves and for others.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I heard some WP writers express views which indicated that they had no concept of the “others” part of that.
But you’re absolutely right – there is a social aspect to all of this. Lower numbers have triggered e.g. shops, bars, restaurants all opening again. Certainly here.
I suspect if governments had framed this as “get vaccinated if you want to go to the mall again” then vaccination rates might have been higher.
LikeLiked by 1 person
https://www.vcuhealth.org/news/covid-19/johnson-and-johnson-vaccine-how-is-it-different
The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines use mRNA technology, and the Johnson & Johnson vaccine uses the more traditional virus-based technology.
mRNA is essentially a little piece of code that the vaccine delivers to your cells. The code serves as an instruction manual for your immune system, teaching it to recognize the virus that causes COVID-19 and attack it, should it encounter the real thing.
Instead of using mRNA, the Johnson & Johnson vaccine uses a disabled adenovirus to deliver the instructions. This adenovirus is in no way related to the coronavirus. It is a completely different virus. Although it can deliver the instructions on how to defeat the coronavirus, it can’t replicate in your body and will not give you a viral infection.
This [Jansen or J&J, Astra Zeneca, etcetera] type [rather than the mRNA style] is more traditional or more what we have been through before. And, here, I will complain that the directions on administering the shots should be better across the board because of experience and studies. The needle should be aspirated before the stuff is injected into the person. This is so only muscle is the injection site and not a vein.
Now, this is yet different from something like the traditional polio vaccine. That is live, real stuff and can replicate as well as be spread to others after injection. [There is an alternative polio vaccine, but my oldest child’s doctor put up a fight in the latter eighties when I asked for it.] So, we’ve already had more than one “technology” of vaccine for decades. But the mRNA adds yet another kind (not only different in terms of the disease but the methodology).
LikeLiked by 1 person
OOPS! I said “injected” when I should’ve said “administered” (in the context of the established and live polio vaccine); that one has been given orally (via liquid) while the alternative one is injected.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I got a flu vaccination for the first time in my adult life two years ago (2019). I came down with the flu about a month later. Oh, well. They do say they’re taking a shot in the dark sort of. Not quite; they make they’re most educated guess each year. This last fall (2020), I got another flu shot… which, this time, actually gave me the flu. Oh, well. I survived. So that was an experiment, too (but in a different way). I didn’t get the flu from running around town. Next time, I think I’ll get it from running around town if at all. I’m sure, meanwhile, that I had any flu shot offered to children when I was a kid.
The small pox vaccine is an excellent example of governmental success and even worldwide cooperation. People don’t have to get that any more. So, no one has to get mad at me when they don’t see the scar from it in my arm. (It’s on the back of my shoulder a bit toward my neck.)
LikeLiked by 1 person
Correction: … make their most educated guess each year.
Incidentally, I looked for my scar a couple hours ago.
I could only see it because I was looking for it
and remember the shape. It’s basically no longer detectable to others.
LikeLiked by 1 person
The Australian Government is a shit show that’s why not
LikeLiked by 2 people
You say cases are rising. So what? Cases spread the natural immunity better and faster. As for people getting sick? If you’re vaccinated, don’t worry. The panic initially was about not overwhelming healthcare systems. Remember? We want young people to get it. Scientifically, the vaccine may interfere with eradicating the disease and prolong it. It’s too specific so the multilayered immunity to variants that people get from actually having the virus is being artificially replaced. Booster shots will be chasing that perfect. killing immunity in perpetuity.
Reminds me of the time that scientists tried to clean up oil spills with artificial chemicals only to find out it interfered with Nature and prolonged the process. Nature cleaned it up in areas not disturbed by human arrogance in half the time. 😀
LikeLiked by 3 people
So you think that small pox and polio vaccines were unnecessary to eradicate those diseases because nature would have done it more effectively and the more people who contract the decease the better? I take it you haven’t gotten a COVID-19 vaccination. Do you ever get flu shots? Other vaccinations? And who are these “we” who want young people to get COVID? If you have children, do you want them to contract COVID?
LikeLiked by 2 people
According to one source ‘young children are ‘naturally immune’ from Covid. Yeah. I know. *eye roll*. You can inform some folks, Fandango, but if they won’t see, they just won’t see.
LikeLiked by 1 person
You’re right. And I’m not taking the bait.
LikeLike
Comparing Small Pox and Polio to Covid-19 causes a gasp at the scientific ignorance needed. Then? To compare ANY other vaccine to this ‘experiment’ seals the deal. LOL
I’m sorry to laugh but arguing on something so ridiculous would make me a fool.
Most of your questions have nothing to do with the discussion on “science”. But, yes, I think the more young people who get it (Large numbers already have had it.) is better in the eradication of the virus. Psst … lots of scientists hold that opinion, just not the politically approved type who speak to the ‘sheep’.
Kids have an over 99% likelihood of no problem with the virus. The vaccine can’t even promise (doesn’t need to because no one can sue the companies. LOL) 99% safety for young people.
Take care of yourself. Your frustration with what others CHOOSE for their health needs isn’t necessary nor very tolerant. 😉
Dumb people die every day from their decisions… you can’t impose your “smartness” on others. 😀
LikeLiked by 1 person
Forgive me for being so brash as to question your scientific knowledge and medical experience. I guess I’m just one of those ignorant sheep who knows nothing about anything.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ah ha! It’s enough to know more than your feeble attempt at a reasonable discussion proved.
It goes like this with people like yourself.
1. Expose a false premise. (Your equivalence of Covid-19 to Small Pox.)
2. Refuse to answer tangent questions leading off topic. (Your “Do you get vaccines?” already off topic because this ‘vaccine’ has nothing to do with traditional vaccines. It’s not the same.)
3. Prepare to have your expertise, sources, and credentials questioned because your comments could not be refuted. (It’s not about the intelligent discussion, it’s about you now. You’re dumb or something? LOL)
That’s how it always goes.
What you know? You’re the one spouting useless facts. I don’t have to know where you got them to know that they aren’t scary or reasonable.
1. Cases are in no way the measure for safety. Deaths are.
2. Epidemics and pandemics aren’t the same.
3. Vaccines of old don’t use mRNA and have approval from trials.
4. Risks are what we weigh in dangerous situations, not who is joining the ‘pop culture’ or political club.
You may know a lot of things. But your presentation has too many holes to be effective and/or convincing. Pointing out the holes needs no expertise at all. But… you’re passionate. Good for you!
LikeLiked by 1 person
I see. “…with people like me,” huh? Okay. As I said, I yield to your superior brain and flawless logic.
LikeLiked by 1 person
“People like you” AKA people who suggest that they know what’s good or smart for others. ❤
LikeLiked by 2 people
Oh, you mean like most religious Christians who claim to know what’s best for others?
LikeLiked by 1 person
I don’t use groups as a default complaint or even a problem. Individuals all make different choices and are ultimately diverse. Are you a bigot? You seem nice. Claiming groups are ‘bad’ does sound like bigotry. I don’t think you mean that, though.
Did a specific Christian ruin your day or pressure you to take an experimental drug? That’s terrible! 😀
LikeLiked by 2 people
Oh Susan, you certainly do read into my comments what meets your low expectations of me. I never claimed that any group is “bad.” What is said was that some, and possibly many, Christians
proselytize or tell non-Christians that they will rot in hell for not accepting Jesus as their savior orthat those who aren’t Christian must be amoral for not embracing their beliefs or that woman who CHOOSE abortion are committing murder. They say these things because they believe they are right and that anyone who believes otherwise is wrong. This observation was made in the context of your criticism of me when you characterized me as one of the people who suggests that they know what’s good or smart for others. And I was merely drawing an analogy with those Christians who suggest that they know what is good for others.
LikeLike
I understand why we misunderstood. I don’t know anyone who feels like your ‘broad’ perception of Christians. You live in a rough neighborhood. I don’t think their disapproval is as dangerous to your health as an experimental vaccine but who knows? Neither you nor I are the type to bow to perceived popular opinion. Watch your back… disapproval is the new assault weapon. 😉
LikeLiked by 1 person
I think the problem with the talking points is that they (whether they are Christians or just jump on board the dominant religion and play like they are while hijacking the direction to) relentlessly and heartlessly use the idea that they are the ones not going to hell or not being evil or that they are just saying the right things (with their god as the trump card) in the service of manipulating the lives and the minds of others. And, bottom line, it’s mostly about money for the big fishes. Not lives or freedom or fairness or justice or whatever patriotic language they bastardize along with the bastardization of the books (with spiritual lessons) they abuse. That’s the dominant dynamic that is enabled.
(I know you might not be overtly part of that, Susan. And I’m speaking generally, not more to you or to Fandango.)
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thanks for your insight. What does it matter what others claim or think if people have a strong sense of self?
There’s a lot of ugly talk and truly groupthink going on all around. Are we supposed to please everyone or can we ignore what each of us thinks is nonsense?
Sensitivity and ‘safe spaces’ are oppression of thought and subvert individual integrity.
If people don’t start examining what they think is right more often than worrying about what others are ‘thinking’ about them, nobody is going to be able to function.
I like the saying, “It’s not your business what others think of you.”.
Especially when none of us are either mind readers
or perfect.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I only worry about what others think to the extent that they impinge upon my rights or the rights and freedom of others. As to people’s religious beliefs, those are personal and private and my thought on what anyone believes is, hey, whatever floats your boat. Unless, that is, they try to put a hole in my boat.
LikeLike
Good for you.
LikeLike
I think I didn’t get my meaning across. I’m not going on about what others think of me/us/anyone. Sure, we can ignore stuff. We can also converse about stuff. As for “safe spaces” so to speak, Fandango’s blog site isn’t one of those. My experience with safe spaces online has been all Christian. Touchy people consumed with politics and lies. Which is REALLY sad. (I say this as a person who doesn’t reject the origins of faith and who has experienced enough solid and considerate Christian environments not to throw the baby out with the bath water.) Anyway, moving back to what I was trying to talk about: the enabled force isn’t about attitudes or criticism ultimately; they’re getting things done, taking advantage of people, making accomplices. You might be happy to know I include the pharmaceutical companies in that (and maybe I shouldn’t include them all as I have studied the field), just an example. It’s difficult to explain how it’s a system.
LikeLiked by 1 person
OH… I agree that connected greedy people are playing us all. Sorry… I missed that in your first comment. 😁
LikeLike
The short answer: yes. However, this is largely due to the fact that I’m in a long-term care facility. Otherwise, with my age (35) and health status (pretty uneventful re risk factors for COVID-19), I wouldn’t yet have been on the schedule for my second vaccination. You seem indignant and understandably so, but just so you know, especially in countries outside of the U.S., there are other reasons people aren’t fully vaccinated besides not wanting to.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Here’s my response. I liked how you couched the question too. Why the fuck not? I notice that no one against the shot has given you a logical answer either as to why not. It seems all self serving.
https://sparksfromacombustiblemind.com/2021/07/14/fandangos-provocative-question-126-7-14-2021/
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’m not fully vaccinated…yet. In 2 weeks I will be. To answer the last question because Ontario/Canada had to wait for vaccine supply.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Oh… Just so you know, my response was on your thread and not in my own post because I’d have to put your question in it. I personally choose to keep the language on my blog ‘family friendly’. You see?
We make choices and I have no problem with yours but I chose not to do the same.
LikeLiked by 2 people
If you don’t like the language I choose to use in my own blog, feel free to not read it.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Like I said… I don’t care what you say or do. But, I care what I post on my blog. Not a difficult concept and no judgement was made. Does somebody need a hug? LOL
LikeLiked by 1 person
That’s funny. Yes, I made a judgment on those who haven’t been fully vaccinated on my post when I said “Why the fuck not?” But nearly every comment you made on my post was extremely judgmental toward those of us “sheep” who express “ignorance” and are “dumb,” etc. because we don’t share your view. Perhaps you should take a look at your own way of communicating. And thanks, but I don’t need a hug.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I didn’t say you were a ‘sheep’ but claim there are ‘sheep’ just like there are jerks, bullies, and fruitcakes. Saying your comment was ignorant isn’t the same is calling you ignorant an ignorant person. We all make ignorant claims from time to time. Once they’re exposed, it seems a thoughtful way to proceed is to own them. But some, then attempt to critique the ones pointing it out and leave their comments unexplained. By leaving the comments and not defending or owning them, your sensitivity is clear. Sensitivity is a difficult thing to argue around. Have a beer. You’ll be okay.
That really defines the divide IMHO. Some people think there’s an argument to win according to their personal identity and others just like ideas, know who they are, and don’t take things personal. I find it a lot more with people who argue from the Left. Politics don’t define me and I’m not especially easy to offend because of that. Interesting exchange all around. Stay safe!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Here’s mine Fandango
This has to be the most FPQ yet
LikeLiked by 1 person
Seems a lot of people feel that it is a highly provocative question, indeed.
LikeLiked by 1 person
[posting here, since I only post fiction to my blog]
When it comes to any vaccine, everyone needs to consider their risk vs benefit analysis. I am grateful for the development of vaccines, since they have done a lot of good. For viruses like polio and small pox, which I believe are DNA viruses, you get a vaccine that has been developed a long time ago, hasn’t had to be updated regularly, and therefore has been well tested, with well established side effects. With these vaccines, the benefits outweigh the risks for nearly everyone. The flu is an RNA virus that changes all the time, and so the vaccine has to be continually updated, and there is usually guesswork about which strains will be prevalent that year. For a vaccine like this, far more people are uncomfortable getting it since the vaccine changes, and so the side effects aren’t fully guaranteed, and it might not even target the correct strain, so the benefits may not outweigh the risks.
For the covid vaccine, the risks of the vaccine aren’t fully known, since it is so new, and no one has a time machine to verify that there won’t be delayed side effects in 20 years. It makes it harder to do risk vs benefit analysis when the risks are a big question mark. The vaccines are so new that they aren’t even past their clinical trials stage yet. In addition, this isn’t a typical vaccine, but it works in a completely different way, creating potentially vastly different and more concerning delayed side effects than usual vaccines, which leads to an even bigger question mark. In about 5 years, given no negative news about unexpected side effects, I foresee a lot of hesitant people feeling a whole lot more comfortable getting the vaccine. in 30, it will probably just be the people who don’t like any vaccine who wouldn’t get it, assuming that covid is still a concern.
The risks of covid are a bit more clear, which allows the benefits of the vaccine to be easier to calculate. For many people, the benefits clearly outweigh the risks, even though the risks are a vague question mark. Even if the risks are high, the benefits are still higher, and so the answer to the question of whether to get it is obvious. For anyone who is older, high risk for medical reasons, working with high risk people, or in regular contact with high numbers of people – the benefits become so much more important.
I am absolutely glad that the vaccine is an option for all those people. It has certainly had a net gain, especially in population dense areas.
Now, for me personally – I am young, and the vaccine is only just available to me as an option. Long before it became an option, I already had covid, gotten sick and recovered, then a few months later had multiple hangouts with two close friends who both got covid, just before they both got sick at the same time, and I discovered that I definitely have antibodies since I didn’t get a single symptom. Since I already have anti-bodies, I don’t see much benefit to getting the vaccine. I feel that the risks would outweigh the benefits, especially since I am young and have many years ahead of me to have to live with any potential side effects. Also, due to family medical history, I feel that the potential risks have a heavier weight for me than for the average person.
I personally will not be getting the vaccine because I already have antibodies, do not work with high risk people, and am not in regular contact with high amounts of people, and feel that the potentially risks are weightier for me thanks to genetics than for others. I’d rather that the specific vaccine doses that I would have used go to someone with far higher risk who will benefit from them more than I would. If I didn’t have antibodies, the benefits would be higher for me, and would be far closer to outweighing the risks, and I’d be more likely to get the vaccine.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thank you for your well thought out and articulately stated answer. I do hope the anybodies you built up as a result of having contracted COVID will continue to protect you from the virus and any variants that may surface. And I also hope that they will protect others that you might come in contact with from contracting the disease from you should you not wear a face mask in public.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Of course I am fully vaccinated as are my daughters and their husbands. If there’s a booster, I’ll get that too. I also get a flu shot every year and have recently received the 2 shingles vaccines as well as the pneumonia vax. I share your opinion on this topic Fandango along with many if not most other topics. Personally I would delete the antivax comments and pingbacks so as not to give them attention, but that’s your call.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I am tempted to delete them, Paula, but in the four years I’ve had this blog, I’ve never deleted a comment that wasn’t spam and I’m not about to start. Hopefully most readers of their antivax comments will see them for what they are.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I was vaccinated in January and then second dose in March. I had no concerns about the safety of the vaccine. My parents vaccinated me for every childhood illness as a babe and throughout school, and I get vaccinated when travelling to parts of the world whenever it is recommended.
But at the same time, while working for the NHS, I have come across patients who declined vaccines for all sorts of reasons and we have always respected the legal right to self-determination. There are all sorts of valid reasons people refuse vaccines. Of course it important for people to be well informed and to understand the risks of refusing a vaccine or any other form of treatment.
I was a little skeptical about the reports the vaccine was 95% effective in some cases. That seemed odd to me as the annual flu vaccine is normally something like 30-70% effective. I could not understand how when a vaccine is tested during a time when all test recipients were having to socially distance there was no question mark over the efficacy of the vaccine during a more normal period where people mix closely when travelling and socialising. I still have not found answers to some of my questions and it sometimes feels as if there is a blockade against even the slightest negative information about the virus. I have no concerns myself about safety but of course the media reports about the small minority of cases where people did develop blood clots or other detrimental side effects were concerning. I watched them more to find out information to be able to answer the questions our patients asked of us.
Due to the speed of the development, and the vaccine being tested during a time when recipients were socially distancing rather than interacting normally, I think some feel uncertain about the authoritative information they see about the virus, and of course there is plenty of dubious online content which cannot be corroborated and has picked at fears and mislead some people. But to be honest, I think that is more a reflection of the level of mistrust people have of governments and the awareness people have of medical scandals. Trust is an issue. It really is.
I personally did not hesitate to have the vaccine. But I am not insensitive to how others feel. Also, after I had the vaccine I continued to wear full PPE at work and observed all social distancing requirements and wore facemasks whenever required. Since January we have had to be tested twice a week for covid and every test I had was negative. Some of my colleagues who had been vaccinated have tested positive although they had either no or just mild symptoms. I do wonder at times – have my negative tests been more due to social distancing?
Anyway….I do not really think about it much. I accepted very early on in the Pandemic that there was a threat of a rampant disease – so good hygiene, quarantining and other practical measures were going to help protect people. The vaccines have also been an important tool in reducing the amount of suffering the virus incurred. But I think the other practical measures were equally if not more important. I am concerned about the financial and mental health challenges some have had due to the Pandemic and the results of being isolated. But it is incredibly distressing to see people unable to breathe on their own and dying from a virus they caught from a family get together. I think these restrictions have been very necessary.
I know that sometimes those governing have made unwise decisions and it has angered many people. However, I do not envy them at all – the extraordinary challenges they have faced in making decisions that were going to touch everyone’s life or livelihood. What an unprecedented situation for them.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I wonder if I would’ve had less severe symptoms/side effects from vaccination had I waited at least a couple months before getting the second shot. The protocol, here, is three weeks in between. I agree that there seems to be a blockade against information. There is also the short amount of time from which to have gleaned information, like you said. Anyway, the main point of the vaccines has been to cut down in the number of deaths (in terms of less consequential repercussions of infection) as well as numbers of people in hospital beds; “they” didn’t promise us we couldn’t be infected if we were vaccinated. So, I think you’re right in your inclination that PPE is more attributable for your testing negative.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Or social distancing.
I have a friend (friend via her being a friend of my oldest son’s wife) who hasn’t been vaccinated and doesn’t think the mRNA deals should be called vaccines — because they do not provide inoculation in a way that she sees as immunity and because one can still be infected after going for the recommended shot(s) (I haven’t asked her if she knows the difference about J&J or if she is against other selected vaccines). I won’t be staying away from her or making her feel guilty (or trying to pressure her although my second son did put on some pressure). The way I look at it, I didn’t go through all that shit to worry about what someone else is doing in that regard (aside from any ridiculous behaviors we’ve seen on the part of individuals and cults in the news). My president (at time of impact) already screwed up our response; the fault is on him where my environment is concerned. Loser (in terms of being widely coherent — which won’t change if he gets back into office).
LikeLiked by 1 person
I have noticed that my unlabeled correction, at the beginning of my comment to which I’m attaching this comment, happens to be on the same broad topic as what I addressed in the remainder of the comment too. Note: I wasn’t trying with the latter words “stay away” to dispute the wisdom or etiquette of social distancing. I admire what CARAMEL is doing. And she evidently is not about pressuring people either. (I, meanwhile, am not as classy with my [other included] language as she is. I used to be 😏)
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thanks, Mel, for your thoughtful response. Like you, I am fully vaccinated, as is everyone in my immediate family. And like you, I still practice social distancing and still wear a face mask when I am in public places. I think there are still too many people who refuse, sometimes for legitimate reasons, but more often for partisan political reasons, to get vaccinated. And I’m not willing to put my health or life in jeopardy because others are too stubborn to get themselves vaccinated.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I was a bit wowed by the story coming out of my home state, today, Fandango. I was glad that the public-facing people came across as not bonkers (despite it being a state that usually gets colored red on election nights) — in both their direct statements and their statement(s) put out to the public, in writing, and reported; more on that, ever-so-briefly, coming up.* The hospitalizations have, throughout this pandemic, lagged after the increased-cases statistics. Next is the number of deaths. We’ll see how it turns out, but they’re already overwhelmed in the caregiving capacity. Missouri.
They say this variant is more contagious but less nasty. I don’t know. It seemed nasty in India. Time will tell how it rolls on, here. I do know it’s been consistently expressed that the symptoms are different. Mild cases wouldn’t look or feel or be described the same as last time around (let alone undetected cases which are pretty much the same in not being noticed I suppose). A story came out of the northeast, today too, where a reporter described her early symptoms and how miserable she is. *I like that Missouri is offering discreet vaccination, so people don’t have to lose their friends.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I think that it very unhelpful that has become a political issue rather than a medical one.
For me personally, I have been more concerned about how I might be a vehicle for the virus rather than for my own health. We come into contact with so many vulnerable patients. So since the start of the Pandemic, every decision I made was with that awareness in mind. I did not want to put any precious people at risk.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I am fully vaccinated! I have been since the beginning of june! xoxo
LikeLiked by 1 person
👍
LikeLike
I was fully vaccinated by mid May. I do have a couple of friends who are both high risk (one for age and one for medical conditions) and I worry about them catching it daily. And one of them is in the least vaccinated state according to the news this week sometime. But as long as they wear masks, and they both do, I can see them avoiding it. But the science still backs up the effectiveness of the shot and very small risks. Hey, if it turns us all into zombies later… at least I will be a zombie with my family and friends! Ha, ha!
LikeLiked by 1 person